Biden talks Supreme Court and Russia but also media and McCain in rare network interview

President Joe Biden rarely gives network interviews, and when he sat down in the MSNBC studio on Thursday, it came at an especially busy time, with the Supreme Court having just overturned the use of affirmative action in college admissions and in the aftermath of a revolt in Russia.

President Joe Biden rarely gives network interviews, and when he sat down in the MSNBC studio on Thursday, it came at an especially busy time, with the Supreme Court having just overturned the use of affirmative action in college admissions and in the aftermath of a revolt in Russia.

The nearly 20-minute conversation addressed those matters. But it also veered heavily into topics like criticism of the media and light-hearted discussion of the late Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, who was a friend of Biden's.

When Donald Trump was president, he was criticized for giving interviews to sympathetic media outlets where the questions were often soft and even fawning. Biden, meanwhile, has done far fewer formal interviews than his immediate predecessors. His last network interview was in early May and also on MSNBC.

This time, interviewer Nicolle Wallace, who was White House communications director under President George W. Bush and worked on McCain's 2008 presidential campaign, kicked things off by noting how unusual it was for a sitting president to appear in a network studio.

"The president of the United States is here. Really. At the table," Wallace began, before telling Biden, "This is very exciting for us." Biden responded, "It's exciting for me."

The president said the Supreme Court had "done more to unravel basic rights and basic decisions than any court in recent history," pointing to its decision Thursday on affirmative action and its overturning of the constitutional right to abortion last summer.

"I just find it so out of sorts with the basic value system of the American people," Biden said.